Wednesday, March 24, 2010

The End Result of Hyperbolic Politics Is...

this.

I can't wait until someone employs the "libruls-do-it-too" rationalization. After all, there were a few college students who threw pies and tomatoes at Ann Coulter and Karl Rove over the last 8 years.

Because everybody knows the equation:

(rotten tomatoes + thrown pies) X liberals = (thrown bricks + cutting gas lines) X (death threats X threats to families) / health care bill


Though I would use this as an example of why more "liberals" need to embrace the 2nd Amendment more robustly.

.

17 comments:

DADvocate said...

"libruls-do-it-too"

Is that anything like the "George Bush ...." rationalize, etc, etc. Of course, none of these have quite caught up with Robert Ayers yet. Can liberals, including you on this, get any more self-righteous and sanctimonious? What's the end result of stomping on our Constitutional rights?

I keep hearing where were the Tea Partiers when Bush was president. Where was the liberal protest against hyperbolic politics? Where are they now? We're over here in our little redneck havens clinging to our guns and religion. Should we just bend over and take whatever crap you want to dole out while you insult, belittle and otherwise denigrate us?

Is insight a quality totally absent in liberals?

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

How is it sanctimonius to be disgusted by people throwing bricks through windows? I don't like it when anybody does that. And I hate excuses for bad behavior on all sides.

I hated it when college students threw rotten tomatoes and pies at conservatives and right wingers. That is bullshit.

But bricks are worse than tomatoes and pie. Death threats to someone's grandchildren are worse than insults and gaffes and arrogance.

The system will work without bricks or panic. The majority of duly elected representatives traded one broken system we couldn't afford for another broken system we probably can't afford.

If the new system they adopted is truly unconstitutional, the majority strict constructionist Supreme Court will have something to say about it. And even if they decide this new system isn't unconstitutional, the opposition can make their case to the electorate over the next two years.

If they win those elections, the new system can be scrapped.

But bricks through windows, death threats and excusing bad behavior with prior bad behavior of another party will not hurry that process along. As a matter of fact, I would argue they only work against the stated goals.

Dante said...

"I hated it when college students threw rotten tomatoes and pies at conservatives and right wingers. That is bullshit."

So where's you post condemning throwing tomatoes and pies at conservatives and right wingers? I must've missed it.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

I see what you did there. Instead of talking about people throwing bricks and issuing death threats, now we're talking about my reactions to college students throwing tomatoes.

But I'll bite:

If it isn't a post, I'm sure it is a comment to one of SAWB's posts about that stuff. If nothing else, SAWB and I have spoken at length about such ridiculous behavior, how it has no place in politics, and how, at the time, such behavior only hurt the Democrats.

But I am not being ideologically inconsistent here. I have called out hyperbolic politics on both sides for a long, long time.

But one huge problem I have is that folks on the right usually hint darkly that violence is somehow justified. Now that such a meme is bearing fruit, I'm not going to let them have a free pass.

Dante said...

"I see what you did there. Instead of talking about people throwing bricks and issuing death threats, now we're talking about my reactions to college students throwing tomatoes."

To be fair, it's a far more interesting topic. There's nothing really debatable about obviously wrong action. It's the same reason there are often some good posts on here with no comments on them.

And also to be fair, I knew the answer to my question before I asked it. It's not there. Not as a post and not as a comment (unless I did a poor search, but I thought I was pretty thorough).

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Hmm. You may be right about no posts or comments existing about thrown tomatoes or pies. I couldn't even find an SAWB post about it (though I could swear there were).

But I've only been able to hit up the June 2005 archives so far.

I have to say, we've done a fair amount of writing in the last 5 years. What is far more interesting is to look back and see how much has changed, and how much hasn't changed at all.

DADvocate said...

I know we're not suppposed to talke about how liberals do it too, but my Congresswoman, Jean Schmidt received threatening voicemail over her position (voted against Obamacare) on healthcare.

How is it sanctimonius to be disgusted by people throwing bricks through windows? I don't like it when anybody does that. And I hate excuses for bad behavior on all sides.

Then why are you saying you don't want to hear about libruls-do-it-to? Here's a few examples of Republican offices being shot at, vandalized, etc. A black man, Kenneth Gladrey, was beaten by SEIU union thugs and called nigger by them. And, the Black Panther voter intimidation case Obama's administration conveniently decided to not prosecute. The list goes on forever. No wonder you don't want to talk about it.

Liberals love violence when it's directed at those who don't think like them.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

And, on cue, "libruls-do-it-too."

Of course, this is about more than tomatoes and pie.

This is stuff I don't recall hearing about until today. Strange that I would have heard of the tomatoes and pies, but not of these incidents.

But as I have apparently been saying for five years now, such reprehensible behavior is the end result of hyperbolic politics.

Dante said...

"But as I have apparently been saying for five years now, such reprehensible behavior is the end result of hyperbolic politics."

It's not the end result. It's just an end result. The vast bulk of the population manages to avoid threats and violence even in the most hyperbolic political environments.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

@ DADv: I was writing my comment at the exact same time you posted yours.

Here's my problem with the "libruls-do-it-too" meme: I don't like excuses for the inexcusable. I don't like rationalizations. Period.

I don't like this behavior when "liberals" do it, I don't like this behavior when "conservatives" do it, I don't like this behavior when "European soccer hooligans" do it.

But what I really cannot stand is when media, bloggers and radio say exactly the kind of thing you hear in the Wingfield op-ed I just posted:

Of course this stuff is terrible, and has no place in politics...but don't forget that so-and-so did it too, let me share some examples...

I really can't stand it when excuses are made using apples-to-oranges (or in this case, tomatoes) comparisons, which I've seen before.

I was expecting the tomatoes and pies meme before the shooting at a GOP campaign HQ meme (since I don't remember hearing about the latter), since I've been hit up with that before in conversation.

Strangely, these new links only bolster my long held belief that hyperbolic politics are dangerous.

One can draw a straight line from the "GOP-as-Nazis" comparisons to the swastika burned in someone's front yard for being a Bush supporter; one also can draw a straight line from the "death panels, dictatorship, secession" talk to the current threats.

While I agree with Dante that most people rise above the nonsense, I definitely see a strong relation between the rhetoric and the behavior. Peer pressure, fear and helplessness can be felt even by adults.

I think Wingfield is wrong: words matter, and political hyperbole leads to bullshit like this more often than when political rhetoric is reasonable.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

(And now this post is really starting to look a lot like one from June 2005.)

Dante said...

"I don't like this behavior when "European soccer hooligans" do it."

This is perfectly acceptable behavior for any soccer hooligans, European or other, thank you very much.

DADvocate said...

This is stuff I don't recall hearing about until today. Strange that I would have heard of the tomatoes and pies, but not of these incidents.

Nothing strange about it at all. We have a MSM that operates as an arm of liberalism. Objectivity and fairness matters not. Events are overblown or ignored according to how well it serves liberal ideology. Just the fact that a CNN host, Anderson Coope, refered to Tea Partiers as "teabaggers" should give you a clue.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Well, one of those links comes from USA Today, which is hardly an underground publication.

Thing is, in 2004, I was reading plenty of conservative, libertarian and right wing blogs as well as the usual diet of MSM. Including Glenn Reynolds.

I still don't remember reading anything about this, and this is pretty big. Hell, I've asked for evidence of union thuggery and been given far less than the Orlando story for years.

We've gone over the MSM "biases" plenty. Pressure to deliver the big story first and generate the most page views to increase advertising - those are their main biases.

And I've lived in three towns where media is slow to run controversial stories against powerful individuals of all political stripes.

DADvocate said...

A good post on the hyperbole here. (Much more tame than my blather.) The post introduced me to this term: "tu quoque" which is Latin for "you did it too." Now we can say "tu quoque" instead of "liburls/cornservatus did it too" and sound real smart.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Touche.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Bob Barr sums this up nicely.