Monday, July 19, 2010

You Lying Sack...

Sept. 9, 2009

July 16, 2010

When the linchpin of your legal argument is that the government has the power to lay and collect taxes, you probably shouldn't spend so much time claiming something isn't a tax.


Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

If anything, this is NOT a "new tax," this is closing a loophole that has to date allowed for tax evasion. Ending a subsidy is not a "new tax," except on the few who were taking advantage of the subsidy.

Right now, people who do not have health insurance affect the number of dollars I pay in both taxes and for health insurance. My dollars subsidize their "choices."

So while I have some issues with the HCB as written, the "get health insurance, or face a penalty" part ain't one of em.

That also explains their use of the taxation clause as constitutional justification.

patsbrother said...

Long ago, Patrick suffered an epiphany. He was feeling low, but then--out of the blue--a giant pitcher of red liquid burst through his wall and, without braking its painted-on smile, shouted an encouraging "Oh, yeah!"

And then Patrick did drown his sorrows and drank from that giant, sunny pitcher of kool-aid.

Oh, yeah!

Dante said...

Yeah, and Han Solo making the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs doesn't seem to make sense given a parsec is a unit for measuring distance, but some fanboys have thrown up explanations of how that could make sense rather than accept that the writers were asleep at the wheel. You still won't find that explanation accepted outside of places like Wookiepedia. Maybe there's some Obamapedia where a tax can be a tax and not be a tax at the same time. Maybe this tax is in the Maw black hole cluster? For the rest of us, it's a tax or it's not.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Yes, because only conservatives have real policy differences, us liberals have all "drank the kool-aid" or live the land of make believe. This is all very simple. You may not like it, but Obama is doing exactly what he said he'd do.

The "new tax to pay for healthcare" narrative that Obama is quoted responding to is that everyone would see some sort of new tax increase in order to pay for the HCB. This narrative came from the same credible sources that said we'd have death panels.

However, what both Obama and this new examination of enforcement mechanisms describes is not a new tax on everyone (as is being insinuated), but a penalty for people who don't carry insurance, enforced by Constitutionally approved mechanisms.

The people who will have to pay this have been and currently are recieving health care subsidized by MY tax dollars and insurance premiums.

Implemented as currently sold, I will pay not one red dime more in taxes or premiums. That's the theory, and the foundation for the whole reform model. It ain't what I wanted, but it is what we got.

If you want to call the money the willfully uninsured a "penalty" or a "tax," go right ahead. Tomato, to-mah-toe. So long as they stop recieiving health care subsidized by my money, you can call it flatulence for all I care.

Just don't act like this is some new disingenuous thing.

Dante said...

"Just don't act like this is some new disingenuous thing."

No, it's a very old disingenuous thing: campaign promises.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Campaign promises? September 9, 2009 was after the election. More to the point, I have yet to see a tax increase.

When I am exposed to "new taxes" to pay for this HCB, I'll be sure to let you know.

patsbrother said...

You have lost your mind.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

How have I lost my mind? Where is this new tax I'm supposed to be paying? I don't recall any IRS employees showing up at my door to collect the new HCB tax. If they did, they didn't leave a note or anything.

Obama said this isn't a new tax, and I have yet to pay a new tax. I'm sure you see how that works.

This isn't verbal acrobatics, this is about proof. SHOW ME THE MONEY.

Dante said...

The campaign promise what that if you make under $250,000 per year your taxes will not go up. "Not one dime" I believe is the quote. The whole reason Stef even challenged Obama on that one was because of said campaign promise and the flak he was taking for it at the time.

"Obama said this isn't a new tax, and I have yet to pay a new tax. I'm sure you see how that works."

You keep saying that but I have absolutely no clue how that works, Pat. Taxes don't exist or not exist based on if you pay them. According to your logic, there are many who don't pay any income tax so there must be no such thing as income tax either.