Monday, August 16, 2010

Coward

Harry Reid is a coward. He does not deserve another term as a U.S. Senator. In the greatest demonstration of all that the zoning issue in lower Manhattan is nothing more than a steaming pile of manufactured bullshit, Reid - member of a formerly persecuted religious minority himself - panders to those Americans ignorant enough to buy in to the culture of fear.

I knew this would happen. It should not surprise anyone that the most spineless Democratic Senator of all would capitulate so easily to the raving lunacy of the fringe.

I hope every Democratic voter stays home on election day in Nevada.


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20 comments:

Dante said...

Obama argued that the Muslims had the right to build their mosque. Reid argues the same thing. But when it comes to whether or not those Muslims should build their mosque, Reid is apparently in the 70% "fringe" who thinks they shouldn't. As long as he doesn't support government intervention to stop the mosque from being built, I don't agree with but respect his opinion. (And in the state of Nevada he doesn't really have any toes to step on with that opinion.) Yeah, it's politically calculated, but guess what? He's a politician. That's what he does.

The only other real bone to pick is this: "The controversy is entirely manufactured, and Obama's comments did not "pour fuel" on the debate; it just gave people who already hate Obama a way to attach him to the fabricated outrage."

The issue was leaving the MSM's radar. Then Obama makes a statement and it's front page news again. How exactly is that not pouring fuel on the issue? Obama specifically used his bully pulpit to keep this thing alive. He didn't accomplish anything except to keep the story in the news cycle and attempt to score political points by trying to reason with that 70% while keeping the 30% happy (the bulk of that 30% identifying themselves as "Liberal" or "Democrat").

The mosque is going to get built. Obama conflated the issue of rights with the decision of the part of the parties involved to build the mosque. He was attempting to turn an unpopular inevitability into a political win for him by championing the right to freedom of religion. Harry Reid kicked Obama in the balls by driving the wedge back between the two separate issues, but Obama should still be able to pull of a win here.

Harry Reid is a coward. He does not deserve another term as a U.S. Senator. But this mosque issue is not a clear indicator of that.

dsb said...

I share your frustration, but enough to hope he loses re-election--I mean, Sharon Angle?

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Dante, Reid doesn't care whether or not the community center gets built. His statement is all about politics, and the fear that this lunatic manufactured issue will cost him his job. So he hedges by pandering to the religious bigotry and xenophobia.

And I don't care if the polls say "70%" of Americans agree to restrict someone's religious beliefs. They think that because our leaders are such cowards, and won't call this bullshit for what it is.

The media was not going to leave this story alone. It was not going to go away. There is a right and a wrong here in stark terms, and Reid is running away from the righteousness of religious liberty and towards xenophobia and bigotry just to win an election.

He is worse than the people who started this thing. He may go now, and never show his coward face in public again, ever. Lord help him if he ever has to deal with anti-Mormon bigotry.

DSB, yes. Sharon Angle. She is likely to win anyway. Let entropy and anti-incumbency do its work. That way, we don't have to deal with Reid's capitulationism, and get to inject some real crazy into GOP circles in Washington.

Dante said...

Pat, no politician cares whether or not the community center gets built. And that 70% of Americans are merely answering to whether or not they want it there. The question has nothing to do with whether or not they think our government should restrict religious freedom to keep it from being there. I don't want the Atlanta Dragway 5 miles from my house but I don't think the government should come in and shut it down.

"There is a right and a wrong here in stark terms."

In terms of rights, yes. In terms of personal preference, I'm not so sure. When it comes to rights, Reid seems to be lining up on the right side of the issue. He's just hedging on the xenophobia to carry some weight.

"He is worse than the people who started this thing."

Now that I'll agree with. A career politician is far worse than a former career politician.

dsb said...

First, I don't think Angle will beat Reid. I could very well be wrong, nothing would be unusual about that, but it's hardly a done deal that she'll win. And I would be all for maximizing the Republican crazy in Congress to shine more light on their craziness, but there's too much in the balance. The next Supreme Court nominee (or the one after), for example, which will be the mother-of-all confirmation battles. I'm furious about the cowardice folks are showing about the whole Muslim Center deal, particularly Reid, but I don't see how Senator Sharon Angle will in any way make professional politicians less skittish. I mean, on the Muslim Center issue, Angle is still more wrong than Reid, right?

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Pat, no politician cares whether or not the community center gets built.

That's kinda what I've been saying all along. All this is is a marketing strategy by the right-wing.

And the fact that 70% of Americans prefer to restrict someone else's religious beliefs and property rights is Not OK. I thought far better of us as a nation.

DSB, Angle is absolutely more wrong than Reid, even if Reid is far more despicable. Yes, there are likely to be major confirmation hearings coming up, and every vote is going to count.

Oh. Well. That just means someone shouldn't have wasted an opportunity on milquetoast Elena Kagan. Hell, we had a fight over that nomination. Which means that, if there was any slightly more controversial nominee, we couldn't count on a Reid vote either.

Dante said...

"And the fact that 70% of Americans prefer to restrict someone else's religious beliefs and property rights is Not OK."

Pat, I'm assuming you have some sort of logic here that I'm just not following so I have to ask: how does someone not wanting something somewhere imply that they would prefer to (or would even be willing to) trample someone else's rights to keep that thing from going there?

dsb said...

Reid, should he be re-elected, wouldn't be so easily cowed by a Senate confirmation fight. Not exactly a profile in courage, but there you have it.

Don't hate the player, hate the game? Or something like that (I think I'm supposed to write that phonetically but I can't bring myself to do it).

You're probably right about Kagan but imagine what it's going to be like when, say, Kennedy retires? Let's hope it's in the second term of the Obama Administration.

patsbrother said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
patsbrother said...

First: what in the hell makes Kagan a milquetoast? Did I completely miss something? What makes her spineless?

Second: I've previously said that if I fall into a coma and then come out of it, I would not deny Cousin Pat the joy of getting to tell me who the president is. I would now like to add an addendum: when it comes time to replace Justice Kennedy, could someone make sure that's when I enter said coma? I don't think I want to be around for that mess.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Dante, let us not take the strange, hedgeling behavior of several high-ranking Democrats as representative, here.

Considering the facts of the situation, the 70% in question only have two reasons to dislike where this community center is being zoned. One of those is that someone on the news, the internet or talk radio is misrepresenting the situation to them.

I find the other reason disgusting. I find that reasoning Not OK. Since few other people seem to have the cajones to say so, I will say it without equivocation.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

DSB, when the next Supreme Court justice has to be nominated, it wouldn't matter if the President nominates Darth Vader. We're not going to hear anything about the law or the Constitution - we're going to hear a lot of pandering to the base from both sides, which is what that circus has turned into.

I have zero reason to expect Reid to stand with any nominee if his political fortunes are at risk.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Sprout, I sure hope Kagan lives up to her station. But if you can find me a more vanilla individual to sit on SCOTUS, it would come as a surprise.

And yet even her lite-record, mostly free of controversy, became a tempestuous political issue on the right-wing. As if she's going to single-handedly take away everyone's guns and force everyone to get an abortion.

Who, her? Really? I would say "unbelievable," but after the even bigger pile regarding a zoning issue in lower Manhattan, I guess I'm going to have to rethink my expectations.

Dante said...

"Considering the facts of the situation, the 70% in question only have two reasons to dislike where this community center is being zoned."

Maybe those are the only two reasons you can come up with, but it's not necessarily the only two that exist. Here are some other possible lines of reasoning:

-Maybe they don't like community centers.
-Maybe they don't like a community center being built in a non-residential part of Manhattan.
-Maybe they don't like the increased traffic such a project would bring.
-Maybe they're interested in a community center but find the location to be too far away.
-Maybe they're hoping some for some specific alternate use for the property.

I don't know if any of those pan out, but you have absolutely zero proof your two reasons are valid either. Without the polling getting into the specifics, your statement is at best undecidable conjecture. Such conjecture tends to be easy to spot because the people throwing it out there love to shove in the word "fact" to try to prop an argument up more than it otherwise should be.

So you really have no logic at all. Those opposing the building of the community center must also be for trampling one's religious rights because that's what you want to believe.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Those opposing the building of the community center must also be for trampling one's religious rights because that's what you want to believe.

Uh, no. Because that's what the spokesmen and women of the groups who oppose this thing have stated as their policy.

I've linked to a few of those policy position statements over the last several weeks, if I recall.

If these folks belonged to any other religion, this would not be news, and Republican Presidential and gubernatorial hopefuls wouldn't be on television telling us about it.

Dante said...

"Uh, no. Because that's what the spokesmen and women of the groups who oppose this thing have stated as their policy. "

Yeah, because everyone polled must be in lockstep with one of those groups. A controversy is being manufactured here, Pat, and you're part of the manufacturing process. I'm sorry you don't see that, but as I've said many time before here, don't drink your own Kool-Aid. Not everyone is opposed this thing because they're stupid or evil. Most people are reasonable and figuring out their reasons can go a long way to resolving any conflict.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

You take that same survey and remove any refrences to the religious persuasion of the folks who own the building, and I'd bet opposition drops to around 2%.

No. Go ahead. I'll wait.

You can hide behind some sort of rational and legitimate opposition all you'd like, but there isn't any. People in Nevada don't care about this because it might increase traffic in lower Manhattan.

Dante said...

"You can hide behind some sort of rational and legitimate opposition all you'd like..."

Deal. I'll hide behind rational thought and reason while you flail your arms about wildly telling us all about OMG TEH EVIL!

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Wow. Epic syntax fail on my part.

Cousin Pat from Georgia said...

Let me try this again. Ahem:

You can try to maintain the appearance of some sort of rational and legitimate opposition all you'd like, but there isn't any really in play here.

People in Nevada don't care about this because it might increase traffic in lower Manhattan.